Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Lindsay on November 15, 2007 at 11:51am

I'm an Atheist (so his my husband who is a vegetarian that's going vegan). We always find vegans & vegetarians at our Atheist meetups and Atheists at our veg meetups. One of the first "friends" I met on here was an Atheist, too. There's a Vegan-Atheist website on myspace filled with people (even bands!) It's common for sure - at least from my experiences. All I can gather its how we see the world, and how it could be...

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Permalink Reply by Maynard S. Clark on November 15, 2007 at 1:25pm

We find vegetarians at all Meetups.

I think the error comes in thinking that, if we find vegetarians in networks that focus on one of our differences with others, then most vegetarians will be like us in that respect.

There's no logical or evidential base for that assertion.

Of 6.7 billion human beings, the affinities vegetarians and vegans have for those who share history with them is likely greater than it would be with us, who are historically different.

I think that as vegetarians and vegans, we can be open to that which is historically different without forsaking our own historicity. In other words, an atheist vegan of the PETA persuasion can be friendly to a Seventh-Day Adventist or Hindu or Jain lacto-vegetarian without needing to monopolize or "own" or manage the dialogue begtween the two of them.

They can coooperate in outreach, education, and other efforts where neither is compromised morally or otherwise; efforts to promote vegetarianism generally should be distinguished from efforts to promote vegetarianism to speciflc groups or networks who have differences with a great many others.

Efforts to promote vegetarianism generally should be gracious and characterized by a general (or "mainstream") approach that is both objective and focused on the facts related specifically to vegetarianism.

Efforts to promote vegetarianism to specific groups or networks (say to SDAs on one hand, or to Muslims, or to atheists, or to freelove advocates, or to bar and casino owners) should ALSO focus on the vegetarian information so that they can make clear to the targeted constituencies what the educational issues are, but they can use their shared differences (common similarities, if you will) to build relationships and trust.

I think vegetarian outreach folks and other advocates should restrain themselves from trying to create vegetarian sectarianism, though we hear of this all the time. Just two days ago I got a notice that the Muslim vegetarians in America couldn't get along with one another, so the Sunni Muslim vegetarians were going to separate from the Shi'a Muslim vegetarians and form their own e-mail discussion lists for their respective constituencies.

We can see why that is. Perhaps it's better than constantly throwing offense after offense in the face of other vegetarians. I just wish we could cooperate on a few issues related to raising the percentage of folks who are practicing vegetarianism, but perhaps it all relates to how important it is for certain vegetarians to argue with other vegetarians of a different mind that (1) there's no God or (2) Hillary Clinton or Dennis Kucinich or Ron Paul is the ONLY qualified candidate for the White House this term, or (3) it's better to kill unwanted babies than to let them grow up in either unwanted or likely to become meateaters and create more injustice.

Not everyone is going to agree on those points, or on other points which could be listed.

So, is disagreement a feature of religion? Not uniquely! I think we all know that.

Truth? Objectivity? Evidence base? Research? Received opinions? Prevailing consensus?
These apply to politics, worldview, news coverage, social notions, and much, much more.

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Permalink Reply by vegan4Jesus on November 15, 2007 at 4:08pm

I actually found veganism/Jesus at about the same time. In my search for information on animal rights, I came across a pamphlet on "Christianity and Vegetarianism" I read it at first just to be able to argue with Christians, as that was a fun past time for me in my youth, but ended up really becoming interested in Jesus!

After moving to Norfolk to work for an animal rights' organization, I found a few friends who were also on the same path as I, read a Lee Strobel book, along with some D.T. Gish... and BAM! Jesus has been my best friend ever since!

Even though Jesus is my best friend, I still respect and like to learn about other's beliefs, which is partially why I started this forum. I've tried several times to order copies of the Koran (Qu'ran) online after listening to Naj-One, but so far haven't received any copies yet. I've also recently read a book on Buddhism, but was sadly disappointed by the author, who said that there was nothing wrong with eating meat!

Hope to get a lot more info from you on your religion!

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Permalink Reply by vegan4Jesus on November 15, 2007 at 4:23pm

Amelia: Any suggestions on books on the "five precepts"

I tried a book about "Buddhism for Beginners" but the author talked specifically about how he felt most people took the idea of not killing "too far" by going veg!!!

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Permalink Reply by Amy on November 15, 2007 at 6:46pm

I practice Mahayana Buddhism and I believe it's the Nirvana Sutra which says this "in no circumstances should one eat meat or fish " nor animal corpses, found in the jungle, for instance " nor even accept from a donor a meal which contains an abundance of flesh-foods. The very contact of other food with meat is deemed defiling and requires purification of the food by water." Eating meat really breaks many "laws", from compassion (which is a basis for Buddhism), to causing suffering, no killing.....I think there's also another quote from Buddha that says "To become vegetarian is to step into the stream which leads to nirvana."

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Permalink Reply by chaserpaul on November 17, 2007 at 6:13am

This has been a major challenge for me. I'm Buddhist, but don't attend a sangha because I haven't found one locally that practices veg*nism. I would never criticize a sangha for this, but it's a personal requirement. I admire people who can "take what you need and leave the rest," but can't do it myself.

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Permalink Reply by Sara on November 18, 2007 at 8:12am

well, I am a Christian, and I feel that being vegan is supported by Jesus, there are alot of things about the Niceans that suggest the first followers were vegans...I have a blog about it on my myspace page. www.myspace.com/saraelw
I also believe in a lot of buddist philosphy, I feel that you can be buddist and Christian, because Buddism doesn't worship a diety its basically a way of thinking for me, of non violence and compassion.
I don't like it when other Christians tell me that God created animals for us to eat, I then have to go into the whole first plan, of the garden of eden, the reasons why humans ended up eating animals, the whole argument about it not being healthy for us because when we were created we were intended to be vegans, in Genesis it basically states that, but we fell so we had to leave the garden. No body wants to listen to that stuff though.

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Permalink Reply by Rowan Pendragon on December 12, 2007 at 10:23pm

I am a Pagan with pretty strong Wiccan tendencies, though not strictly Wiccan. I find that being mostly Vegan makes my meditation and my connection to the earth much stronger. I have spent much of my life as a meat eater and I noticed when I first went Veg that my ability to reach a tranced state in meditation was much easier and my ability to do healing work especially (I do Reiki work) was MUCH easier and more effective.

Ethics wise I also see it as being something that makes more sense going with the idea of "harm none" (not causing intentional or willing harm to others). I know that I don't need to eat the Goddess's other creatures or that I need to support the corruption or harm of Her creatures to live and therefore choose not to. There are a few non-Vegan items that are used ritually a few times during the year, mainly honey for Mead and cream as offerings for several times of the year, but I see these as being a little different as they are blessed and consecrated and offered to earth, the Gods and the spirit of the animal, known or unknown, that the item came from. Myself and the others that I work with do our best to get local products that we know aren't factory produced with, luckily, isn't difficult to do.

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Permalink Reply by oudy on December 20, 2007 at 1:56pm

i am not religious i am spiritual. how ever there r several scripures in the holy writings which prescribe 2 ur enquies..... 4 instance in the book of genesis 1:29-31, u r advised on what 2 eat . i say advised, 4 the reason we may eat of anything if we so chose.
i will share this with u. if u actually pay close attention 2 what is written in the bible . jesus was trying 2 save us from rselves.
4 instance look at the last supper and c what u c there as opposed, 2 the chrismas dinner we serve this day and age. now i dont now nothin, but im jus sayin. chow.... oudy

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Permalink Reply by Kiz on December 29, 2007 at 3:39am

Hi all, I just thought I'd pass this info on. It is one aspect of Buddhism:

"Liberating Living Beings: A Buddhist practice of rescuing animals, birds, fish and so forth that are destined for slaughter or that are permanently caged. They are released to a new physical and spiritual life. The practice exemplifies the fundamental Buddhist teaching of compassion for all living beings."

(Entry taken from Buddhism A to Z)

It's nice to hear from a religion that condones (and in fact encourages) acts of animal liberation.

Christianity is less forthcoming about putting its compassion into action for non-human animals, however there is a book called "The Lost Religion of Jesus" by Keith Akers that outlines the culture of Jesus as being one of simplicity and non-violence - and most definitely including compassion for animals in the form of vegetarianism. I think the message of Jesus was probably severely watered down by the Jewish high priests and by the Romans who controlled the Jewish territory and its people at that time. Personally, I like to remember the man Jesus as a rebel and non-conformer who caused social discord for all the right reasons.

Really interesting discussion. Thanks.

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Permalink Reply by Cassandra on December 31, 2007 at 6:14pm

I'm a Lutheran Wiccan. I have to admit that Wicca does support my vegetarian diet more. I agree that it does goes along with the "harm none" philosophy. Rowan Pendragon, nice to see someone else on this forum who knows about Wicca. There's not many people into it where I live in north central florida. There is one other vegetarian at the church I go to. Lutheran religon does say stuff about the animals being companions. I know it's strange worshipping two different religons but there's stuff about both religons that I like. I like that Wicca is more nature based and is a little more on the free spirited, less organized way. I consider myself open minded when it comes to other religons. I actually have a book with recipes and information about the Hindu religon. I've read a little about Buddhism and it does seem like a cool religon.

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Permalink Reply by Kiz on January 1, 2008 at 10:23pm

Hi Cassandra, it's lovely to read your reply. I think it's wonderful that you have taken out of these different religions what feels right for you. You might be surprised to learn how many others are doing that also. I think it's a really positive thing. Perhaps it shows we are finally getting to know our true selves. I have met several folks who follow a variety of pagan paths and I understand the Wiccan way to be openly compassionate towards our fellow beings and our Earth.

Warm wishes to you.

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